Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
Come on,
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Chris. With the Kingdom Bound insider podcast. This is day three.
We've evaded the rain.
My hair is still proud, but it could get worse by the end of the day. And we'll just have to see where we land. You know, everything's weird here. I've been here when there's flash flooding.
[00:00:26] Speaker C: Oh, wow.
[00:00:27] Speaker B: So. So these are my friends. I'm gonna let you guys introduce yourselves.
[00:00:31] Speaker C: Awesome. You know, well, first I wanna say your hair looks amazing.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:00:34] Speaker C: So it's. It's good.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:00:37] Speaker D: I kind of wanna see Chris after rainstorm hair.
[00:00:39] Speaker E: Oh, yeah, I do.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: It's like. I don't even know.
I don't even know.
[00:00:43] Speaker C: Maybe you could just go out there and dance for us in the rain.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:00:46] Speaker C: And do a little, like, dance like David. Yeah.
And we'll be ready.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Okay.
Okay.
She's Pam.
[00:00:54] Speaker C: This is Pam.
[00:00:56] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, I'm Pam. Sorry, I forgot to introduce myself.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: Did you say Leah?
[00:00:59] Speaker C: Yes, and I am Leah. And we are here from the Sunnyside up podcast.
[00:01:03] Speaker B: Yes, yes. So I. I got to know them. They do what they just said Sunnyside up podcast. And I think I got onto their podcast, started listening to it, and it was like the middle of the wintertime, I think so. So it was like, very depressing.
But there, you know, when you're going through thing in your life and just watching people process life through the lens of scripture and being parents and, you know.
You know, a lady was on here yesterday who was a songwriter, and she said that God clearly spoke to her at one point and said, you need to display your weakness.
And then I'll undergird that and lift it up in a lot of ways, when I watch you guys, that's what I get. Like, we need to put our. We need to put our weakness on display. Now, obviously that means you become an inside joke, because then all these people are like, I know you guys and remember that one time this happened? And you're like, I don't know you,
[00:02:02] Speaker D: but like, did we say that on the podcast?
[00:02:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, is that true? You know, so I know you've said that, like, because they did a. A woman's conference recently and they had a bunch of people there who went and saw them live. And. Yeah, now. Now they feel like they know you.
[00:02:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:02:19] Speaker B: What's that feel like?
[00:02:20] Speaker C: Oh, man, I feel like it's random.
[00:02:22] Speaker D: I think, like, sometimes people come up
[00:02:24] Speaker C: to us, even like in the mall or different places, and they're like, hey, like, you're from the Sunnyside like, we know who you are. We watch your podcast, and I think we're just more shocked.
[00:02:34] Speaker D: And now we have to behave in public at all times. Let's do it. Like, darn it, anyone could be watching us.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: And see, you're going to be a local celebrity.
[00:02:41] Speaker D: That's.
[00:02:42] Speaker C: That's easier for Pam to do. It's harder for me to behave myself.
[00:02:45] Speaker B: But I really, like, you were friends stopping.
[00:02:48] Speaker E: Oh, you're going.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: I mean. I just mean, like, how did it come culminate back to? Was that a. Were you friends again or, like, I just mean people come in and out of your life.
[00:02:57] Speaker D: Well, Pam, I know.
[00:02:58] Speaker C: Would you like to.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: What? I mean, it's like, you know, sometimes God brings people in and out of your lives. They come back.
[00:03:05] Speaker E: Absolutely.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: Were you friends again and then started doing the podcast, or was it, like, all okay?
[00:03:11] Speaker D: Yes, definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were good friends. Then we had a season where we didn't really talk much. We didn't even live close to each other. And then it was really during COVID we kind of. Leah reached out to me.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:23] Speaker D: And then we just started walking and chatting because there wasn't much you could do unless you were outdoors during COVID And then we kind of picked up our friendship again. And every time we were together, we were just. Lee and I will say anything to each other. We just have that friendship where we don't hold back. And we would often say, this should be a podcast episode because our conversations would just go so wild all the time.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:03:45] Speaker D: And then one day, I think Leah was just like, let's actually try it and make a podcast.
[00:03:50] Speaker E: So here we are a year and a half later.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I would equate that to. To being in a band when, you know, you're, like, linked to somebody, you can break up, but then you're like, are we going to get back together or do this? Because we kind of don't have a choice. Right. Like, we're. We got a thing. We got to get back together and do the thing.
[00:04:05] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: You know, and so you kind of feel inextricably or whatever that word is, linked together.
[00:04:13] Speaker C: Oh, she's stuck with me for life.
[00:04:14] Speaker D: She can't break up with me again.
[00:04:15] Speaker E: No, it's true.
[00:04:16] Speaker D: I have to be in my best behavior now.
[00:04:18] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:04:18] Speaker B: Okay, so talk a little bit about, like, the podcast, what you feel like, its mission and purpose is like, sure,
[00:04:25] Speaker C: you want to go first?
[00:04:26] Speaker D: And then I'll. Sure. Okay. So basically, one of the things that Lee and I both love. We are people people. We love meeting new people and we
[00:04:33] Speaker B: love stories, people pleasers, just people's people.
[00:04:36] Speaker C: I mean, a little that too, to be honest.
[00:04:37] Speaker D: Any Pam, not me, Leah is helping me because sometimes she's just like, pam, walk away. But yeah, so we, we love meeting people. We both have been in ministry for years and are part of our marriages, and so we're just used to that, always meeting new people. And we love hearing people's stories. We always think there's so much power in stories. When you hear what someone else has walked through, how God has worked in their life, it just fascinates us. And we think it's super inspiring. So part of our podcast, we wanted to have guests on to share their stories, like Good, Bad, ugly, and how they've gotten through it, or sometimes people are in the midst of it. There's not always like a happy ending. But just to share honestly say, this is what's going on, this is how God's moved. And we just love that.
Yeah.
[00:05:23] Speaker C: And I think that, you know, oftentimes in the, the church world, Christian world, we like, hide away from certain questions or certain topics. And I think Pam and I whole, like, motto or whatever was like to like, let's bring the hard questions, let's talk about things that people don't want to talk about.
[00:05:41] Speaker B: Right.
[00:05:41] Speaker C: And like, just go for it.
[00:05:43] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:05:43] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: And it started. I mean, I know it's the first because I'm a, I'm a fan, everyone, so I actually know what I'm talking about.
[00:05:50] Speaker D: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on.
[00:05:54] Speaker C: Can we.
[00:05:54] Speaker D: Before we give the gift, can we do a preface? Okay. Chris helped us understand something about our podcast that we didn't know.
[00:06:01] Speaker C: It's true.
[00:06:01] Speaker D: We, we, we thought our demographic was like, women, maybe like 25 to 55 was about our demographic. And then, and then Chris came into our life and we were like a man, A man is listening to these crazy episodes. And then we checked our analytics and
[00:06:17] Speaker C: actually, and a lot of men, Chris
[00:06:20] Speaker D: and his friends maybe are the ones listening to our podcast, you know, so
[00:06:23] Speaker B: we love it when you're going through something, you find all the other people that are going through it and you're like, hey, you should watch this.
[00:06:29] Speaker D: Yeah. It was actually shocking. So we got a guess that we
[00:06:32] Speaker C: have a little gift for you. So you can't continue because you just said something about you're a fan.
[00:06:36] Speaker D: Yeah, I am.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: All right.
[00:06:39] Speaker D: We have this custom made specially for you for today.
[00:06:42] Speaker C: Custom made. And we actually would really like you to Wear it when you're on stage. That would be really helpful.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. I love it.
[00:06:49] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Look at that, everybody.
[00:06:51] Speaker C: Number one fan.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: I would. I would rock this all the time.
[00:06:54] Speaker D: Just want to make sure.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I'm into it. You know, I'm going on at 11:30, everybody. So it might not be sunny outside, but it's going to be sunny on my shirt.
[00:07:03] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: And for you to check it out. And I'm going to. I will. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Thank you.
[00:07:09] Speaker C: Well, we just had to do a little something.
[00:07:10] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, well, of course, you know, I was hinting, like, I mean, when am I going to get some swag?
Yeah. I mean, I feel like it just.
I don't know, I resonated with it and I had sent it to a bunch of friends and I.
And it was like one of those things too, where, like. And I don't know if it's just because I'm in, like a wilderness season of my life, but not a wilderness where I feel like I'm not feeling anything. I actually feel like I'm feeling a lot of things.
And so just like when you. When you, you know that feeling when you, like, you meet somebody or you see somebody and something clicks, you're like, oh, I. I feel like that. That. I feel like that person's supposed to. I'm supposed to meet that person or, like, help or, like, exchange encouragement or whatever. You know what I mean?
[00:08:01] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: On and on all levels, everybody equates it to falling in love. But in life, God has that in multiple forms of, like, friendships and just like all those things. So I think, like, and after hanging out with you guys, just clicked right away. And even. Even today at Kingdom Bound, I mean, you guys are getting the royal treatment. You got the dude who's like, basically the main guy of Kingdom Bound driving you around in a golf cart.
[00:08:27] Speaker E: I know.
[00:08:28] Speaker B: It's like, I don't even think any artists here has gotten that treatment.
[00:08:32] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: Just so you know.
[00:08:33] Speaker C: You know what, though? That's also. I feel like what we're realizing the heart behind Kingdom Bound.
[00:08:37] Speaker D: Right.
[00:08:39] Speaker E: It's.
[00:08:39] Speaker C: It's the behind the scenes, it's the little things.
[00:08:41] Speaker E: It.
[00:08:42] Speaker C: You don't need to be a big artist for them to just show up and be like, thank you for being here.
[00:08:47] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:48] Speaker C: And I love that.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. 100%.
So we wanted to just for a minute, highlight them because you are going to hear them all day with different people and you'll share stories and you'll banter and you're going to hear all about Pam and Leah and their dynamics.
[00:09:05] Speaker E: They're.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: They're very deep, personal, interpersonal, related dynamics.
But we just wanted to have them on for a minute just because they've been a blessing to me. So Kingdom, Mound, Family and abroad, I want to encourage you to check out their podcast, subscribe. Whatever the, whatever the people say these days with like it and share it
[00:09:24] Speaker C: and all that, like, share, subscribe.
[00:09:26] Speaker B: And so we'll put it in the, in the show notes. And they're actually going to be doing interviews today, so you're going to get to hear and see all their colorful personality come to life. So thank you guys for doing this. Thanks for having me available because it came about, came together quick, right?
[00:09:42] Speaker C: Yeah, it did.
[00:09:43] Speaker D: And, well, thanks to you, Chris. You're such a support for us. You're always encouraging us and supporting us and we are so grateful for that.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: So, I mean, I feel like, I know you've only hung out twice, but, you know, I watch it when you watch something enough. So I'll go home and I'll put it on in the background if I'm like by myself and I'm cooking or whatever.
Just like it's become like my new Andy Griffith Show. So as a kid, my mom used to play that all the time or like just when she was mellowing out or, you know, going up to bed, you put it on your, like, little disc or whatever.
Exactly. Because I actually. Because I'm learning you know more about America than I do. But you are American.
[00:10:22] Speaker C: I am. That's right.
[00:10:23] Speaker B: Anyways, everybody, thanks, guys. Thanks for hanging out. You were going to have a great day.
[00:10:27] Speaker A: Need a little sunshine for your soul.
Join Leah and Pam on the Sunny side Up podcast for real stories, honest faith and lasting hope.
It's the kind of conversation that encourages, inspires, and leaves you laughing.
The Sunny side Up podcast. New episodes every Monday.
[00:10:49] Speaker C: We are live again.
[00:10:51] Speaker D: Yes, we're here at Kingdom Bound Music Festival. Just chatting with a bunch of new
[00:10:54] Speaker C: friends, meeting new people, hearing different stories.
[00:10:57] Speaker D: We're having a blast. We have the lovely Emily here. I'm actually super excited for this interview. I mean, all of them have been great, but Leah and I both clean. That's what we do for work. So we are huge podcast listeners because we just listen all day. So I started listening to your podcast when our neutral friend Chris suggested it. And I was telling Liam, like, I really like this podcast. It's so well done. I love your energy and your banter and then I Love the. So, like, the Bible content that you have, like, the teaching element to it.
[00:11:28] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:11:29] Speaker C: And.
[00:11:29] Speaker D: And even your personalities on there. I was like, these guys are great.
[00:11:33] Speaker C: And then you mentioned in one of
[00:11:34] Speaker D: your episodes that you guys were like, theater majors, pass. And I was like, there it is.
[00:11:38] Speaker C: That makes sense.
[00:11:39] Speaker D: That's why they're just so funny and so energetic.
[00:11:42] Speaker E: So.
[00:11:42] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about who Emily is, But also. Okay, I'm going to mess it up. But your little slogan at the beginning of your podcast is like, hope something I can't remember, so you're gonna have to start with that.
[00:11:54] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:11:54] Speaker E: Wow. Okay. Well, first of all, thank you so much. What a gracious introduction.
I am so happy to be with you guys as well. So. Yes. My husband and I are the co hosts of the Not Crushing it podcast.
[00:12:06] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:12:07] Speaker E: Where we offer people a way to follow Jesus with less hype, more hope, and a whole lot of honesty.
[00:12:13] Speaker C: There it is.
[00:12:14] Speaker D: There it is. It's amazing.
[00:12:15] Speaker C: And we love that because, like, our whole background of the sunny side up is finding the sunny side to, like, the darkest days. So when heard that from you, we were like, oh, this is going to be epic. This is going to be such a good connection point. Yeah.
[00:12:27] Speaker D: So I do feel like the name the Not Crushing a podcast, like, you're totally crushing it. You're like, wait a second. Wait one minute. On this theme of this podcast, we might have to do, like, a little asterisk app. Like.
[00:12:40] Speaker C: Just kidding.
[00:12:40] Speaker D: We actually are crushing it.
[00:12:41] Speaker C: But hang on. You guys start your podcast by the Not Crushing it moments.
[00:12:46] Speaker E: Yeah, we. We actually do. Yes. So we start every conversation by sharing, like, our Not Crushing it moment of the, you know, week or whatever.
Yeah. And that's actually like, really important to us. And one of the reasons why we wanted to call it the Not Crushing it podcast was because I'm like, we are so human. Like, I can't. I just think sometimes when you're on the other side of, like, a microphone. Right. Or, you know, honestly, like, when you're in the audience versus on the stage, you can just. Your brain likes to, like, fill in their story.
[00:13:16] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:13:17] Speaker E: You know, and then you just get this picture that they're like, oh, like the perfect Christian. And I'm like, we're for sure not okay. Like, we. We need God's grace just as the next person. Yeah. So anyways, we just try to, like, humanize ourselves in that way so that people can, like, relate to us, and we're failing forward and so, you know, we're just like, hey, join us for the journey of failing forward. Yeah. So it's like, maybe you heard us say this on the podcast, but something that I feel like if I could rewrite the sermon on the mount, like in modern language, I'm like, the first line is for sure, blessed are the. Not crushing it.
[00:13:50] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:13:50] Speaker E: For the kingdom of heaven is yours. And that brings me a lot of comfort.
[00:13:53] Speaker C: Yeah. That's amazing. So how did you kind of like, come up with this idea? I know you guys are both in ministry. You both are worship leaders.
[00:14:01] Speaker E: We are. Okay.
[00:14:03] Speaker C: Okay. So obviously, like, you've got the creative side to you, but what made you want to launch into the podcast world and, like, what shot you to, like, to move forward with that?
[00:14:14] Speaker E: Okay, I am gonna try very hard to concentrate on the question. This is so funny. You told me this was gonna happen.
[00:14:19] Speaker C: Yeah, I did. I warned you.
[00:14:20] Speaker E: There's a lot happening in the room.
[00:14:22] Speaker C: Yeah. You just gotta block it all out.
[00:14:23] Speaker D: Great.
[00:14:24] Speaker E: Okay, thank you.
So that's a great question. So, yes. So our background, like, to back up even a little bit further, our background is in musical theater. That's how we met. We met doing a show together.
We're friends for a long time before we, like started dating. All the things. Great. You're like, this is way too far back.
[00:14:42] Speaker D: No, we love it.
[00:14:43] Speaker C: We love a good story.
[00:14:44] Speaker E: Okay, give us the tea.
[00:14:45] Speaker D: That's what we're here for.
[00:14:46] Speaker E: Oh, my gosh. You guys are the best.
So anyway, so long story short, shortly after we were married, we really felt like God told us to move to New York City, which of course was like, oh, yeah, I mean, I guess that makes sense. Like when you do theater, you moved to New York. But like, we, we both really felt strongly that it wasn't going to be for like our careers, if that makes sense. We just had a sense about that.
And then, yeah, as it kind of played out, we.
I think we were there for maybe six or eight months before we were invited to become worship pastors at this little tiny local church that we were part of.
And so, yeah, we kind of just felt God's like, invitation to put theater on the shelf. On the shelf.
[00:15:24] Speaker D: Right.
[00:15:25] Speaker E: Maybe not. Maybe not always. Yeah, like for now, decide. And that's kind of what brought us into full time ministry. So, yes, we were worship pastors. Career pastors.
Anyways. So I guess, like, fast forward a long time.
Maybe it was like a year ago or something. Isaac was like, I think maybe we should do a podcast. And I'M like, no.
[00:15:46] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:15:47] Speaker E: Absolutely not. Like, there is so much content in the world. There are so many voices. I know. Like, you probably dealt with some of this insecurity. Yeah. Like, and, you know, you guys starting your podcast. So I just was like, oh, my gosh. No way. Like, what do we possibly. Like, what could we possibly say? Sure. That, like, already hasn't been said. You know?
And then the other thing that I really struggled with was I don't want people to look to us. Yeah.
Like, we have it all together.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:14] Speaker E: Like, we totally don't have it all together. Like, you know, we're. We're real. Like, real, real people. We fight and then we mend. But, like.
[00:16:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:23] Speaker E: You know what I'm saying? Like, all the. Yeah. Yeah. We're just. Yeah. So I just felt unqualified.
Anyways, long story short, this has happened actually a couple times in our marriage where, like, Isaac will say, I think we're supposed to do this. And I, like, absolutely shut it down. But then, because I'm like, okay, be, like, humble and, like, you know, love my husband. Am I awful about it? Whatever. So I did. And like, the next week at church, someone walks up to us, and they're like, hey, have you ever thought about doing a podcast?
[00:16:51] Speaker C: I'm like, wait, won't he do it?
[00:16:53] Speaker D: Were you talking to my husband?
[00:16:56] Speaker E: I did ask. I was like. But they were like, no. Why? Like, I. And. And so I was like, well, that's kind of funny you say that, because we have been talking about doing that, and he was like, I want to buy the equipment. What is it going to take? Like, yeah, totally. Like, wow. Such a generous act.
And so God. God is just so kind. And, like, he just. He just makes it clear.
[00:17:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:18] Speaker E: You know, he just makes it clear. So I would say that was kind of, like, the thing that pushed us to do it.
[00:17:24] Speaker D: Amazing.
[00:17:24] Speaker E: But really, I feel like, what?
Again, allow me to be like, yes, okay, fine, let's do it. Is because I'm like, I really just want to share this message. Yeah. Of, like, less hype, more hope. Yes.
I've been in the church really, like, my whole life.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:42] Speaker E: Which has been amazing. But there's been ups and downs and anyway, so we're just really interested in sharing maybe. Yeah. The, like, not so sunny side of things sometimes.
[00:17:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:53] Speaker E: But that, as, you know, makes the sunny side part. Absolutely. Jesus. Ever more. More, like, beautiful.
[00:18:00] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:18:01] Speaker E: So anyways, I don't know.
[00:18:03] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:18:03] Speaker E: Did that answer your question?
[00:18:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:05] Speaker D: I love that. I think we totally resonate with that because our podcast is called the Sunny Set up, which we do try to get to the sunny side. Always in every episode.
[00:18:13] Speaker C: Every episode.
[00:18:13] Speaker D: But we also often say on our podcast, we want to talk about the things that no one will talk about in the Christian world. Like the things that are supposed to be taboo or controversial. We'll just go there. And we always say too, like, we're going to talk about it. There might not be, like a polite conclusion at the end.
[00:18:30] Speaker C: We're not like.
[00:18:30] Speaker D: And then this is what you should do. Sometimes we just drop it out there and that's the episode. There's no, like, we don't have an answer for anybody. We're just saying, this is how we feel. This is our opinion, or this is what God's put on our heart. And it might not resonate with someone. And it might because we. I love that you guys are doing it. I think that's what I loved about listening to your podcast is. Yes. When I was singing. They're totally crushing it because, like, this is what we need. We need more authentic conversations. And I love the intent behind it. They're not crushing it. I love that. The authenticity, the just being real. Not feeling like you have to put on, like a friend or be someone special. To be qualified in the eyes of God or to, to be used by God, really.
God will use anybody. If we, if we read the Bible, we should, we should know that right? By now. Yes.
[00:19:18] Speaker E: Yes. No, I. I totally agree. And again, that's kind of a little bit of our heart behind it. I just feel like in mainstream Christianity, even though we would say, like, you know, at any no name person living their life for Jesus is, like, doing amazing good. And I think we would all agree with that. Yeah. But then, like, there's these, like, unspoken things that happen where it kind of like negates that message.
[00:19:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:44] Speaker E: Does that make sense?
And so, yeah, I just, like, we want to call out the holy in, like, the ordinary moments and even like, in this suck. Yeah. You know, like, this is also where God is.
[00:19:59] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah.
[00:20:00] Speaker C: So. And like, there are moments in life where it sucks and you feel like you are in a pit. And that's obviously a bit of our stories. And that's how our podcast got started was like, coming out of, like, the Miri mess and God bringing us forth and finding the study side even in the mess. And so I just love that when you talked about, like, the whole whole hope part, I was like, oh, this is so good. And just so kind of in line
[00:20:23] Speaker D: with what we do.
[00:20:24] Speaker C: But you guys are also ministry together, so I have another question for you. So you guys have been married for how long?
[00:20:29] Speaker E: Oh, good question. Okay, 12 years.
[00:20:31] Speaker C: Okay, 12 years. And you guys have been doing ministry together for how long of that?
[00:20:37] Speaker E: I mean, I think all of that.
[00:20:39] Speaker D: Okay, yeah.
[00:20:40] Speaker E: Me, we.
Well, would you call it, like, being paid to do ministry? No, that's, like, different.
[00:20:46] Speaker D: Just, like.
[00:20:46] Speaker E: Okay, then, yeah, we've done ministry the whole time.
[00:20:47] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:20:48] Speaker C: And I want, like, obviously ministry is such, like, a big part of a lot of our. Our lives and stuff like that, but as a married couple, what keeps you, like, the most aligned?
[00:20:59] Speaker D: Because we all.
[00:21:00] Speaker C: We all know. I mean, listen, my husband and I got in a fight on the car ride up yesterday, Right. And in the end of it, we'll use anything. And usually it's these moments.
[00:21:07] Speaker E: Literally anything.
[00:21:08] Speaker C: Right. And so, like, how do you guys stay aligned? Especially both do, like, music ministry together.
[00:21:16] Speaker E: Oh, wow. That's a good question.
[00:21:17] Speaker D: Sorry.
[00:21:18] Speaker E: No, that's okay.
Okay, so I guess I'm going to start by saying when we first were doing ministry together, like, it was rough.
[00:21:30] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:21:32] Speaker D: Okay, great.
[00:21:33] Speaker C: So you're very normal. You're very normal. Keep going.
[00:21:36] Speaker E: Yeah, like, it was. It was really, really normal. And I think maybe part of it. Or not. Sorry. No, no, it was. It was rough. Yes. I think part of that was because.
Oh, well, maybe not Isaac, but at least I had this idea in my mind of what this was supposed to look like. I mean, can we actually even just say, like, even before marriage, I was like, oh, my God, like, we're gonna get married and we're gonna up in the morning, we're gonna bring our Bible together in our matching robes, and we're gonna stay together and we're gonna finish each other's prayers. I'm like, and then you had a
[00:22:08] Speaker C: rude awakening, and then we got married,
[00:22:10] Speaker E: and it was like, that's not really what happens. Like, I'll get up and do a thing. And as it turns out, Isaac is a night owl. I'm the morning person. So even just that, you know, and so you have. I feel like that. That those, like, first years of marriage were even just kind of, like, letting go of that. Those expectations of what I thought it looked like to be like a Christian married couple together.
[00:22:34] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:22:36] Speaker E: And I think, like, once I finally was able to let go of that and just allow us to, you know, be who we were, it was a lot better, you know, and something that I think I've had to really work through. I guess I'M just, like, being honest as a wife.
[00:22:51] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:22:51] Speaker E: Is like, judging his spiritual walk.
[00:22:54] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:22:56] Speaker E: You know, because I'm like, oh, you know. Well, you would do XYZ if you, like, really were on fire or, you know, whatever.
[00:23:02] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:23:03] Speaker E: And so I feel like there have been a lot of moments throughout our relationship where God had to convict me of being like, do you really think.
Yeah, you're the only one I talk to.
[00:23:17] Speaker D: Right. Yes.
[00:23:19] Speaker E: You know, like, yeah, that's painful. And I'm like, oh, wow. Interesting.
Yeah. So even, like, I guess I'll. I'll say something or give it. I'll give a specific example. Okay. So we have led worship together a whole bunch of.
And in the early days, we would, like, lead worship together. And I would. I. I would feel like, oh, I think we're supposed to go here.
[00:23:42] Speaker D: Right.
[00:23:43] Speaker E: Whether it's like, go here in a song or say a thing or whatever. And I would, like, look to Isaac, and, you know, a lot of times he would just, like, like, support me and, like, let me do that thing or whatever. But then there were some times where he would, like, start something. Meaning, like, maybe it's a chorus. Maybe he's saying something, and you guys, like, immediately, I'd be like, no, like. Like, internally, like, outside, I'm like, jesus. But, like, inside, what is he doing? Inside, I'm like, what is he doing? Like, this is absolutely not the direction that the spirit is going.
And so for, like, truly, I had to, like, die to myself in those moments and just be like, you know what?
Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah. Like, maybe I'm actually wrong. Like, I. It's so easy to want to just, like, feel right and be. You know, and so there were just a couple times where I've just, like, felt the. The. The spirit be, like, just chill out. Like, step back, Just, like, let him go.
[00:24:39] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:39] Speaker E: And then, of course, you know, in time. And I'm like, what is he doing? What is he doing? And I think maybe just my personality is like, I want to know.
[00:24:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:48] Speaker E: What's happening? You know? But I'm like. I'm like, okay. I guess I just have to trust him.
[00:24:52] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:24:52] Speaker E: I just have to trust him.
And then he would facilitate these, like, oh, my gosh.
Like. Like, such incredible, tender moments with the Lord. And I just would step back and pit, like, oh, my gosh. God. So sorry.
Like, we would have missed this moment.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:11] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:25:11] Speaker E: If I had just stayed in my pride. So I. I think.
I mean, I guess just, like, being open to the humility of, like.
No, my. My husband hears from God and it might look different than how I hear.
[00:25:25] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:25:25] Speaker E: Right. And. And I might make different choices or whatever.
And of course, sometimes Isaac defaults to me, though.
[00:25:32] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:25:32] Speaker E: Right. Like some, like, so anyways, I love. Like, we definitely have a give and take. Yeah.
And so anyway, so I would. Yeah, I would just say, like, humility is like, number one. Yeah.
And.
[00:25:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:46] Speaker E: Just like dying to yourself or just like, it's just gonna be different than what I had thought it was gonna be.
And that's also okay. That's also okay, too.
Maybe there's one more thing I would share. Is that okay?
[00:25:57] Speaker C: Yeah, go for it.
[00:25:57] Speaker E: Okay. Just like on the vein of, like, being aligned and ministering, stuff like that. So. Well, I'll first clarify and just say, like, I'm mostly a stay at home mom, so I'm not necessarily, like, in all the meetings or like in the office with him during, you know, different times.
But I would say, like, Isaac and I have such a. And this has happened over years. Yeah. But, like, we have such an aligned vision of ministry, meaning, like, who. Who has God made us to be? And like, every. Like, everything going through that funnel. So really, at the end of the day, we're like, we are created to host God's presence.
[00:26:40] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:26:41] Speaker E: I don't care what it is, whether it's a worship set, whether we're preaching, whether it's, you know, being at home with our kids at the dinner table. Like, that's ministry too. Of course.
And so we're like, no, we're hosting God's presence and we host his people to encounter Him. I love that. So I know that, like a little.
Maybe it's kind of broad, but to us, it's like every. Everything is that and anything outside of that. We just kind of like, it's not even a conversation. Does that make sense? Yeah. So I guess in like a cheesy way, it's like you make the big things the big things, and then the small things can just be the small things.
[00:27:18] Speaker C: Wow, I love that.
[00:27:20] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. That's so cool.
[00:27:21] Speaker C: She's giving us so much information.
[00:27:23] Speaker E: I know, I know.
[00:27:24] Speaker C: Do you have a question or worship song or something? I don't know if that's public knowledge, but we got a little bit of the inside tea.
We did, we did. So I want you to share, just, like, briefly.
[00:27:34] Speaker E: Sure.
[00:27:34] Speaker C: What you're working on.
[00:27:35] Speaker E: Yeah. Thanks so much for asking.
[00:27:38] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:27:38] Speaker E: It's not actually really public knowledge, but. Or like, I'm. I'm Happy to share. We're an open book.
No, no, this is great.
So. So you know Chris and Old Bear Records. So we actually. Yeah, we just signed on to be with them. Amazing. They are. They are amazing.
[00:27:56] Speaker C: Amazing.
[00:27:57] Speaker E: Okay, so we are currently kind of working on a couple songs and hopefully are going to record a project sometime this year.
[00:28:04] Speaker D: Wow, that's so exciting.
[00:28:05] Speaker E: I know. It's really exciting. I. Yeah, man. God is. God is so good. You know, Isaac and I, as you, you know, know, we've done worship for a long time. Music for a long time. So we've had like lots of various conversations around like recording and.
[00:28:20] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:28:20] Speaker E: And it just like never felt right. Like it never felt like the right time. Yeah. But we had the opportunity to like sit down with Chris and Anthony and they just kind of like shared their story and shared their hearts and I. I was so grateful for them because it was the first time where I'm like, okay, yes, our vision aligns. Our. Yes, our vision aligns.
And they. They just truly are. They're just really pure hearted.
[00:28:46] Speaker C: They are.
[00:28:47] Speaker E: They're really pure hearted. And so that was just like super refreshing. So we're really excited about that project. Thank you.
[00:28:51] Speaker C: That's amazing. Like, we obviously we've never met Anthony, but we've gotten to know Chris really well and I can say that that is 100%, wholeheartedly. That the same impression that we've had with him. It's just incredible.
[00:29:04] Speaker D: Yeah. So.
[00:29:05] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:29:05] Speaker D: Yeah. This is always hard to find that type of authenticity and just a genuine goodness and kindness and people in. People sometimes especially in like an industry related experience. Right. So that's very exciting.
[00:29:19] Speaker E: Absolutely.
[00:29:20] Speaker C: I love that. And I mean, I feel like we could talk all day.
[00:29:22] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:29:23] Speaker C: But we're on a time crunch here and so that's stinks. But we would love to maybe have you on a full episode or have you both on.
[00:29:29] Speaker D: We'll.
[00:29:29] Speaker C: We'll figure it out. But thank you so much for coming and sharing.
[00:29:32] Speaker E: Thank you for having me.
[00:29:33] Speaker C: Yeah, it's been great, guys. Thank you for joining another episode of the Sunnyside. We love you guys. And the sun is coming out, so we are very happy.
[00:29:42] Speaker D: The real sunny side, huh?
[00:29:44] Speaker C: The real sun is coming. But thank you guys and we'll see you next time. Bye.
[00:29:47] Speaker D: Bye.
We are live from the Kingdom Bound Music Festival.
[00:29:52] Speaker C: Which is exciting. It means everything's gonna go well. The lights, the editing, all of it.
[00:29:56] Speaker D: No.
[00:29:57] Speaker C: So no issues.
[00:29:57] Speaker D: It's been perfect. You know, it's not like once Mike got here, everything went crazy.
[00:30:01] Speaker C: Or anything outside.
Everything kind of, you know, kaput it out. And he was asking for Evian water and different, different things. But, you know, here he is, such a diva.
[00:30:11] Speaker D: Oh, just kidding, Just kidding. Mike, we love you already and we just got to know you, so that's great.
[00:30:17] Speaker C: That's right. Guys, this is Mike Gordon and he is joining us today and we are excited to get to know him. So, Mike, tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do.
[00:30:27] Speaker F: What do I do? I do ministry.
[00:30:29] Speaker C: Awesome.
[00:30:29] Speaker F: That's my thing. So my main job, I travel and speak full time. Okay. So I've done over 3400 events around the world. Wow, that's a lot.
[00:30:38] Speaker C: 3400 in what time frame?
[00:30:40] Speaker F: That's over 22 years.
[00:30:42] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:30:42] Speaker D: Okay. I only.
[00:30:43] Speaker C: Wait, I thought you were 22.
[00:30:44] Speaker D: How does that, how does that happen?
[00:30:46] Speaker F: Tell me more.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: Tell me.
[00:30:48] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:30:48] Speaker F: So speaking of my main thing. Okay.
I've been doing that for quite a while now.
[00:30:53] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:30:53] Speaker F: At my full time job.
[00:30:54] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:30:55] Speaker F: And then on the side, I do other things as well.
[00:30:59] Speaker C: So this book, what is it going to be about?
[00:31:01] Speaker F: Yeah, it's a good question. So the long story short is when Jesus comes along, he paints his picture. He does a sermon on the Mount, outlines what a life following him looks like.
And then when he wrapped up the sermon, he says, the narrow road leads to life.
He doesn't say that will be trouble free. He doesn't say you won't go through hell. He doesn't say you won't go through the most challenging season of your life. And sometimes when we're following Jesus and thinking, well, leads to life, it leads to the fullness of life.
When trouble hits or someone passes away or we lose a job or, you know, get dumped or whatever, like, well, this is not what I expected. I did not think the narrow road would be like that.
[00:31:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:46] Speaker F: So the whole book is really just encouraging people, no matter what happens in life, keep following Jesus. I love that nothing I'm sharing has not been touched on since 2000 years.
I use a lot of humor, storytelling and sharing it, sharing the same message in a, in a fresh way, that way. So.
[00:32:06] Speaker C: Well, I love that because that's all what our whole podcast is about, essentially, is finding the sunny side up to every moment in your life. So the tragedy, the hard times. So I feel like I want a copy of this book.
[00:32:19] Speaker D: Yeah, awesome.
[00:32:20] Speaker C: I would like it signed to Leah.
Love Evian.
[00:32:25] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:32:27] Speaker F: Maybe they might sponsor the book.
[00:32:28] Speaker E: Maybe. There you go.
[00:32:29] Speaker C: Listen, if Evian's Watching.
We would like a sponsorship for that.
[00:32:33] Speaker D: I mean, any actually person who's watching will take a sponsor.
[00:32:36] Speaker F: Anybody with money will take it.
[00:32:38] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:32:38] Speaker D: That's right.
[00:32:39] Speaker F: Oh, gosh.
[00:32:40] Speaker C: This is what your book is based on.
[00:32:41] Speaker F: Okay.
[00:32:41] Speaker E: Sorry.
[00:32:41] Speaker C: No, this is. We're going serious now, Mike.
[00:32:44] Speaker D: Yeah, lock in.
[00:32:45] Speaker C: You got to lock in.
[00:32:45] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:32:46] Speaker E: The jokes are over.
[00:32:47] Speaker F: We're doing the interview now.
[00:32:49] Speaker C: Now it's happening. But no, like, obviously you talked about your book, so can you tell us, like, quickly a story in your life where, like, you felt like you were at your lowest and how God used. Used it to like, find the sunny side?
[00:33:03] Speaker F: Well, I would say the book came out of a weird season in life, and I think we're seeing the sunny side up part now, so. So I only touch on this in the first chapter of my book. It's not like the whole. The book is not like an autobiography, anything. But I do have a lot of weird stories.
So in 2019, I'm doing a speaking tour.
It's a long story. Short story is I wasn't feeling well. My stomach was off.
I was blaming this Mexican restaurant that I went to.
I was slandering them for like three or four days. I'm like, oh, my stomach's off. You know, the food. The food poisoning.
And that wasn't it, you know. But I'm a male, which means I'm stupid.
[00:33:44] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:33:45] Speaker F: So rather than taking care of it, I'm like, let's ignore it. You know, let's ignore it. It'll get better. I think I went on Google. I'm like, oh, I'm fine.
[00:33:51] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:33:52] Speaker F: So a couple days later, I'm back in Canada, and I went to bed on a Thursday night, Woke up around 3am Friday morning, and my stomach is just like, something's wrong.
Rushed to the hospital, and what happened was my intestines are tore open.
What was happening for a couple days? They're like, we're twisting.
Expanding.
[00:34:12] Speaker C: That was some strong Mexican.
[00:34:13] Speaker F: It was to be able to do that.
[00:34:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:34:15] Speaker F: It's crazy.
Unrelated somehow to the restaurant. But, you know, I should delete that. You know, one star review on Google.
But what happened was it led to me being in the hospital for 25 days.
[00:34:28] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:34:28] Speaker F: And then it led to a bunch of other compensation.
So the doctor said like one out of three people died. The situation you're in right now, it was furious. You know. Now when I was in the hospital, I was scheduled to do an 81 city speaking to list, and that's three weeks.
[00:34:49] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:34:50] Speaker F: And because I wasn't doing well. I had to cancel everything. Wow, that was a pretty low moment. Here we are thinking a tour might take seven or eight months to plan.
And here I am going like, what was the point about it? Like, you can go share G's room, you know, do some cool things.
And now I'm in a hospital room.
But the more discouraging part was, which is what inspired the book, Sun Inside Up, I guess how we're going to flip it, right? Yeah, I think he's out of the title, right?
[00:35:17] Speaker D: Sure.
[00:35:18] Speaker C: We just want some royalty.
[00:35:19] Speaker F: Yeah, 2%.
But it's interesting because that season, spark of bus, trying to give hope to other people. So while I'm in the hospital, I had a lot of well meaning Christian message. Your niece, respectfully, with very horrible theologies.
Here's why it's happening. Here's what God's doing, quoting things that are not in the Bible.
One person thought it was a great idea to tell me, maybe I'm in the hospital because God does not want me to do ministry ever again. Being done with me. Wow, that sounds like Satan.
[00:35:56] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:35:57] Speaker F: You know, I was about to do a tour of sharing Jesus, you know, and what happened is I probably had like 60, 70 messages all over the map. Well meaning people, but very poor theology when it comes to explaining troubles and people's circumstances. And again, like I said, saying stuff that it's not in the Bible, but they're saying it as biblical.
[00:36:18] Speaker B: Bruce.
[00:36:18] Speaker F: Yeah, so the whole book really came out of that.
It's what if we never know why?
What if you never get an answer to your troubles? How do you keep following Jesus in the midst of that? But a book is not answering questions. It's basically giving people maybe peace, having some empathy with the ones that are sitting there going, I don't know why I have cancer right now. I don't know why I just lost my daughter. I don't know why I'm going through divorce. And I think sometimes when people try to answer the why, if that's not the answer, it can be very discouraging, you know, and sometimes Christians, they say things that sometimes are more discouraging than encouraging. And when you're at a low point in life, for example, when I was in that hospital, when someone's saying, well, maybe God doesn't want you to do ministry anymore. Yeah, if I was in a better state of mind, yes. I'd be like, oh, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
[00:37:10] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:37:11] Speaker F: When you're in the hospital looking on 81 city tour. Can't feel the gap in your head. I'm like, am I done?
[00:37:16] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:37:17] Speaker F: Is this it? And I'm like, oh, everyone. I bailed on the sponsors. Like, will they ever want to work with me?
It's funny where your mind goes based off something one person said, whether it's biblical or not.
[00:37:28] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:37:28] Speaker F: So again, the whole book, it just came out of that. So a pretty junky situation. But here we are now on the other side saying, how can I use that to encourage people, bring people hope, and to speak life into other people who might resonate with those Christian answers that might not make sense for their situation.
[00:37:49] Speaker C: Yeah, I love that.
[00:37:50] Speaker D: I love that, too. Sorry. Because I was just talking with a friend who's walking through a really difficult time, and I just said to her, how are you doing? And she said to me, you know, to be quite honest, I'm both angry at God and frustrated, but I also trust him and I believe that he's good and that goodness Will is still for my life. And I just thought, wow, that's such a beautiful thing that a lot of people don't, like Will not admit is. Is a possibility to hold two things at one time. You could be upset, sad, devastated, but also trust God, even though you don't know why. And I love. That's kind of what you're saying that your book is about. And I think there's such a huge audience that needs to hear that message. Yeah.
[00:38:32] Speaker F: Appreciate it.
[00:38:33] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:38:33] Speaker F: And the thing is that. That is the thing. You can still trust God without the wife.
[00:38:37] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:38:37] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:38:38] Speaker F: So the way the book ends, or maybe I don't. I shouldn't give it to you too much away. But the way the book ends of me back in the hospital.
[00:38:43] Speaker E: Okay.
[00:38:44] Speaker F: But I'm not sick this time. I'm watching my dad die.
[00:38:47] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:38:47] Speaker F: And then he passes away in front of me. And I sat there for almost two hours alone.
[00:38:53] Speaker E: Wow.
[00:38:54] Speaker F: My God. And literally just like, on, like. Like a tape kind of replaying God. Why, why, why? Why is this happening? They never got an answer to why. Why did he die young? Why did he die the way he did? Definitely made sense.
[00:39:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:39:08] Speaker F: But I learned you can still trust God despite not knowing the why. And so when you say trust, we can't trust God but also be frustrating God. Why, like, why this happened? It wasn't like a nice, oh, why? It was like, oh, like, why God? No. And do I resonate with your friend? And I think a lot of people might resonate with that message, but because we're human. Yeah. We're in a broken world.
And I mean this kindly.
[00:39:35] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:39:36] Speaker F: There's some Christians. Right. Their theology has not really evolved beyond Sunday school.
[00:39:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:39:42] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:39:42] Speaker F: You know, God loves me. Nothing bad should happen. And when all of a sudden, that basic theology sure gets flipped upside down, they do get angry, they get upset. They do want to bail on church and God and their relationship with him. So it's interesting you say that you can have those emotions, and we talk about that in the book. There's one chapter about heal how you feel.
[00:40:01] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:40:02] Speaker F: But you can be angry with God but not walk away from him. You know, you can be angry and not sin. You can be, and. But that's something I think we need to hear more. We do.
[00:40:11] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:40:11] Speaker F: Rather than sometimes just giving your traditional church college answer, Pam and I, this
[00:40:19] Speaker C: is the whole, like, behind the story of our podcast is just asking the hard questions in the church world and not steering away from it. Because I think as Christians, like, we're so scared to, like, touch the untouchable. And so, like, we talk on all the topics, and so I love this. Can you tell us when your book comes out?
[00:40:38] Speaker F: No, I can't. So.
[00:40:40] Speaker E: Wow.
[00:40:42] Speaker C: So all this amazing information, and there's, like, nothing.
[00:40:45] Speaker F: Cliffhanger, like, the worst interview ever. You're like, oh, this was like.
[00:40:49] Speaker D: Stay tuned for more.
[00:40:51] Speaker F: So. So where the book is, the third draft is finished.
[00:40:55] Speaker E: Okay.
[00:40:55] Speaker F: So now it's in the hands of the book agent.
[00:40:58] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:40:58] Speaker F: And figure out what's next. So I'm literally in waiting mode.
[00:41:01] Speaker C: All right.
[00:41:02] Speaker F: To figure out the next kind.
[00:41:03] Speaker C: So we'll stay tuned to, like, wait to hear.
[00:41:06] Speaker F: Yeah. It might be eight years from now. So you got to. You got to keep bringing me back every year.
[00:41:10] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:41:11] Speaker F: It won't be eight years from now. It might be hopefully the next year and a half.
[00:41:14] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:41:15] Speaker F: But it keeps bringing me back. And fill it out.
[00:41:17] Speaker D: Okay. Yes.
[00:41:18] Speaker C: And obviously, we're here at Kingdom Bound. So we have a question for you. What is your tie into Kingdom Bound? Like, what has kingdom been. Been to you?
[00:41:25] Speaker F: Yeah. Kingdom Bound. So I. I've been at Kingdom Bound for, I think, 14 years now.
[00:41:31] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:41:31] Speaker F: Speaking and emceeing.
[00:41:33] Speaker D: Amazing.
[00:41:34] Speaker F: And every year, just continually speaking emceeing, which is only part of what I do.
So a lot of people see the platform. I go, you're on this little stage, that big cage, whatever.
But when you are on a platform, it allows you to step off and then go be with the people.
[00:41:52] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:41:53] Speaker F: So if I'm not on a stage. I'm just walking around the entire festival.
[00:41:57] Speaker C: I love that.
[00:41:57] Speaker F: Talking with every human being and because you're. Because over 14 years I have become, you know, I would assume a trusted face.
You can't talk to people. I can't just go to a random Walmart and just go talk to random people.
[00:42:13] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:42:13] Speaker F: That's weird, right?
[00:42:14] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:42:14] Speaker F: But here I was walking around, chat with people. I hear their stories. Some of them are very heartbreaking stories. I had one lady telling me on. On Monday.
This is her first time here without her husband. Her husband passed away and she has an empty chair where he would normally sit every year.
[00:42:30] Speaker D: That's heartbreaking.
[00:42:31] Speaker F: And I'm alone.
But why are you sharing that with me? Let's realize, like, what's harder than miniature free? So, yes, technically I'm a speaker, but speaking is only part of the speaking miniature. And when I come to Kingdom Bound, one thing I love about the organization and the miniature they do is they let me do that.
They don't say hi in the back there.
[00:42:50] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:42:51] Speaker F: They don't say like, surprise, we'll bring you out when we want a big reveal. Do your thing.
And that's one of my favorite cars with the whole festival.
[00:42:59] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:43:00] Speaker F: Just connecting with people and in this case, train work with lady and doing ministry beyond the stage.
[00:43:07] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:43:07] Speaker F: So. And just to give like some inside information backstage of. Great. Is so boring. Yeah, it's so boring. So, so much better to go out and just hang out with people and talk with people and.
[00:43:18] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:43:18] Speaker F: Yeah. So again, I'm so grateful for the privilege to do that and for Kingdom Bound to keep inviting me back every year which builds on that ministry more than just showing up a speak at that time. Yeah.
[00:43:32] Speaker C: Well, thank you for sharing. Thanks for sharing your heart and thanks for asking. We will stay tuned to find out when we can't wait.
[00:43:38] Speaker D: Yeah, we're going to be stalking your page now. I mean, like, when's that book come out?
[00:43:42] Speaker F: Well, it's funny you say that on my website.
You know, your website has a little bio, whatever. And people have like, here's my social media, social media link. Mine literally said, please stalk me at the bottom of my website that my
[00:43:55] Speaker D: social media link blocked or not, that'll be our mission.
[00:43:58] Speaker C: Is there too much?
[00:43:59] Speaker D: What is the line with my.
[00:44:00] Speaker C: I mean, Pam is quite the stalker over here. I feel like she's like a private investigator. So we could, we could figure it out. But thank you so much for coming on, guys. This has been another amazing episode.
[00:44:11] Speaker E: We hope you enjoyed.
[00:44:12] Speaker C: Bye bye.
[00:44:20] Speaker B: Tonight.
